June 28, 2010

Bummer for kavips

Our local blogger who has been more than vociferous about disallowing private citizens who happen to live in public housing the right to possess a gun, sure isn't happy today. That's because the Supreme Court has officially stated that the 14th Amendment of the Constitution applies the 2nd Amendment to the states. In other words, the states (and localities) cannot ban citizens from owning a gun.

I highly recommend reading Justice Stevens' dissent (beginning on page 123 of linked PDF file above), then the complete thrashing of such by Justice Scalia (beginning on page 52). Despite what you may think ideologically, I think a fair person would have to conclude that Antonin wins in a knockout.

UPDATE: Be prepared for the MSM asininity. Case in point (#1): The Chicago Tribune says that the SCOTUS has "extended" gun rights.

Posted by Hube at June 28, 2010 02:50 PM | TrackBack

Comments  (We reserve the right to edit and/or delete any comments. If your comment is blocked or won't post, e-mail us and we'll post it for you.)

That "extends" seems to be the MSM meme Hube. I saw it in the Philly Inquirer website and the AP site. The libs want to paint this as the actions of an activist right-wing court IMO.

Posted by: AJ Lynch at June 28, 2010 03:17 PM

As could be reliably predicted, AJ. Sadly.

Posted by: Hube at June 28, 2010 03:18 PM

Actually,

my case must have been misinterpreted. :) .. I was never in favor of the state banning guns... and agree with Justice Scalia on this point...

The core distinction of my argument, lies in a exact terminology of a definition... I question the definition of the Wilmington Housing Authority, being considered the extension of the state. It is more as a independent organization, responsible for providing housing at affordable rates, that that happens to receive state funding, as do a lot of other entities from the state...

It is the questioning of whether a landlord has the right to control actions on his property, that gets up my gander... As Liberalgeek said, "if you come into my house, be prepared to leave your gun in your car."

So, I understand why some may take issue, due to the connections between the Housing Authority and the government that feeds it...

And to be honest, if the tenants of those buildings ever themselves voted to allow guns into their establishments and the Housing Authority insisted on banning them, I most certainly would be on the side of allowing those guns go into that area..

We are a nation of majority rule. Any time we violate that, you can expect my gander to get up..

But, if a movement were ever to get started, whose ultimate goal was to find a majority to remove the 2nd amendment, you can count on me to fight that movement...

But if a landlord wants to limit weapons on his property, I will support him...

The obvious solution, now with this ruling, is to now legally remove the Housing Authority from underneath all aspics of the government; make it an independent organization, and then ban all weapons on its premises, provided its tenants still felt like they do today.......

Posted by: kavips at June 28, 2010 03:29 PM

@Kavips

Glad to see you're against the abrogation of private property rights. Sadly they've been eroding said rights for decades. Private businesses are told they are "public accomodations" and have to disallow smoking and/or guns because the state says so. Kelo allows the state to take property from poor people to give to rich people because they can get more tax money from the rich people. This line, however got my "gander" up:

"We are a nation of majority rule."

No. We. Are. Not. We are a nation of laws. Laws that must conform to the Constitution. Majority rule is mobocracy and something most Americans want no part of. Count me among them.

Posted by: Duffy at June 29, 2010 08:52 AM

Your statement seems to overlook one compelling fact.. That majority can rule to change the rules, or law as you point out...

If the majority of a certain court, determines that the majority of a legislative body, which was put there by a majority of the population, if it was correct in its assessment of the need to change a rule, than that rule gets changed... or amended.. Slavery was abundant under the Constitution at the time of it's inception. It is not abundant in the U. S. now...

So, ... if a majority is determined to retake those property rights back in hand.... they CAN organize and still do so.

Internet privacy could just be the tool needed to shift the pendulum off its rocker, and start it back in the other direction.. People who accept almost anything, can get ballistic and ready to fight over losing their privacy on the internet...

As well they should.

Posted by: kavips at June 29, 2010 10:25 PM

kavips is still alive? and still has a blog?

I thought he vanished at some point over the last year since his entire world view has been repeatedly debunked by reality for 18+months.

Seriously kavips. Hang it up. You sound like a broken bottle of whine from circa 2007.

Posted by: anon at June 30, 2010 09:02 AM

Luckily for those of us who value liberty Kavips got soundly thrashed in the comments sections of those bigoted posts he made.

Posted by: mike w. at June 30, 2010 10:17 AM

Kavips - Public housing is most certainly public and run under authority of the STATE.

If the WHA is smart they'll rescind their ban, but I don't think they're that smart. I think they'll keep fighting for the ability to violate individual liberty, and they'll lose.

Posted by: mike w. at June 30, 2010 10:21 AM

Sometimes when you have the right detractor, their negative comments make you look much better than you are...

My thanks go out to anon for doing just that. :)

(and just in case someone out there isn't in on the joke, the negative comments reference above, despite being under different names, all have the same address.) lol.

Done deal. Back to the present.

Mike. We'll see.. Despite the Supreme Court decision, they still have the option of pursuing that option under a landlord/tenant agreement clause. All it takes is one more justice on the Supreme Court who sees people having the right to control what's on their property as sacrosanct, to turn that verdict around.


Posted by: kavips at July 1, 2010 12:35 AM

I tend to equate guns and votes this way:

If society can't trust you with a gun, we can't trust you with a vote.

if public housing residents are not responcible enough to own a gun, they are no responcible enough to vote.

if a ex-con can't be trusted with a gun, he can't be trusted with a ballot either.
If you restore the ex-con rights, it's all or nothing.

Posted by: anonni at July 1, 2010 05:06 PM

That sound byte sounds tough, but does it make any sense?

I wouldn't trust my spouse with a gun, but I do trust her with a vote... I wouldn't trust my blind roommate with a gun, but I do, his vote... I wouldn't trust a lot of people who have never touched a gun in their lives, with a sawed off shotgun, but most of them have voted without incident...

Point is, you can't really equate guns and votes, they are not even related as apples and oranges are... You just can't equate them...

The second point is, that if a public housing resident is not responsible to handle a gun, they can't handle a vote, is equally irrelevant.. A vietnam vet who lost his arms in combat, who lives in public housing, cant fire a gun anymore, but he sure can vote... So again, that line sounds tough, but it really is equating two different entities... and doesn't really meet the test of credibility...

And your last statement about ex cons, has a strange illogical twist... If that statement were true, then it would conversely follow that if you give guns to excons, then you can let them vote...
A very illogical conclusion...

However, I do agree with some of your principles... I just don't think votes and guns are equal utensils.

I would possibly agree with your statements if they were to read like this...

If society can't trust you with a gun, they can't trust you with a gun permit...

If public housing residents are not responsible enough to own a gun, they can't be deemed to be responsible to have a gun permit...

If an es-con can't be trusted with a gun, he can't be trusted with a gun permit...

Then, you would be stating something that I could agree with...

In fact, if you were to deem that guns in all public housing units were illegal, provided they were there without a legal permit, then I think we might be in agreement... For if someone has a permit, there is a 100% chance that they are not criminal... knowledge that the gun was there, could become a deterrent to future crime.

Posted by: kavips at July 2, 2010 03:15 AM

What is all this crap about "gun permits?" I demand to see your free speech permit Kavips. Otherwise I can't trust you with free speech rights.

Maybe you shouldn't be allowed to blog (especially since you advocate murder using your blog) Maybe you should have to get a permit as a prior restraint before blogging? Is that OK with you? If not then why not?

We do not require permits for Constitutional rights, and (although I'm sure it irks Kavips) Folks in Delaware don't need a gun permit to exercize their rights.

I will say this. I don't trust everyone with a gun either. I certainly wouldn't trust someone with the violent tendencies Kavips has displayed.

Why is it that anti-gunners are always so violent?

Posted by: mike w. at July 2, 2010 10:00 AM

Here is my free speech permit.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Here is the thinnest thread of any reason you are allowed to possess a firearm...

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Since a permit does not infringe upon your right to keep and bear arms, it is something that is perfectly legal...

In fact, for a concealed weapon, it is required in Delaware...

1441. License to carry concealed deadly weapons.

(a) A person of full age and good moral character desiring to be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon for personal protection or the protection of the person's property may be licensed to do so when the following conditions have been strictly complied with:

(1) The person shall make application therefor in writing and file the same with the Prothonotary of the proper county, at least 15 days before the then next term of the Superior Court, clearly stating that the person is of full age and that the person is desirous of being licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon for personal protection or protection of the person's property, or both, and also stating the person's residence and occupation. The person shall submit together with such application all information necessary to conduct a criminal history background check. The Superior Court may conduct a criminal history background check pursuant to the procedures set forth in Chapter 85 of Title 11 for the purposes of licensing any person pursuant to this section.

(2) At the same time the person shall file, with the Prothonotary, a certificate of 5 respectable citizens of the county in which the applicant resides at the time of filing the application. The certificate shall clearly state that the applicant is a person of full age, sobriety and good moral character, that the applicant bears a good reputation for peace and good order in the community in which the applicant resides, and that the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon by the applicant is necessary for the protection of the applicant or the applicant's property, or both. The certificate shall be signed with the proper signatures and in the proper handwriting of each such respectable citizen.

(3) Every such applicant shall file in the office of the Prothonotary of the proper county the application verified by oath or affirmation in writing taken before an officer authorized by the laws of this State to administer the same, and shall under such verification state that the applicant's certificate and recommendation were read to or by the signers thereof and that the signatures thereto are in the proper and genuine handwriting of each. Prior to the issuance of an initial license the person shall also file with the Prothonotary a notarized certificate signed by an instructor or authorized representative of a sponsoring agency, school, organization or institution certifying that the applicant: (i) has completed a firearms training course which contains at least the below described minimum elements; and (ii) is sponsored by a federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement agency, a college, a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training. The firearms training, course shall include the following elements:

a. Instruction regarding knowledge and safe handling of firearms;

b. Instruction regarding safe storage of firearms and child safety;

c. Instruction regarding knowledge and safe handling of ammunition;

d. Instruction regarding safe storage of ammunition and child safety;

e. Instruction regarding safe firearms shooting fundamentals;

f. Live fire shooting exercises conducted on a range, including the expenditure of a minimum of 100 rounds of ammunition;

g. Identification of ways to develop and maintain firearm shooting skills;

h. Instruction regarding federal and state laws pertaining to the lawful purchase, ownership, transportation, use and possession of firearms;

i. Instruction regarding the laws of this State pertaining to the use of deadly force for self defense; and

j. Instruction regarding techniques for avoiding a criminal attack and how to manage a violent confrontation, including conflict resolution.

(4) At the time the application is filed, the applicant shall pay a fee of $65 to the Prothonotary issuing the same.

(5) The license issued upon initial application shall be valid for 3 years. On or before the date of expiration of such initial license, the licensee, without further application, may renew the same for the further period of 5 years upon payment to the Prothonotary of a fee of $65, and upon filing with said Prothonotary an affidavit setting forth that the carrying of a concealed deadly weapon by the licensee is necessary for personal protection or protection of the person's property, or both, and that the person possesses all the requirements for the issuance of a license and may make like renewal every 5 years thereafter; provided, however, that the Superior Court, upon good cause presented to it, may inquire into the renewal request and deny the same for good cause shown. No requirements in addition to those specified in this paragraph may be imposed for the renewal of a license.

(b) The Prothonotary of the county in which any applicant for a license files the same shall cause notice of every such application to be published once, at least 10 days before the next term of the Superior Court. The publication shall be made in a newspaper of general circulation published in the county. In making such publication it shall be sufficient for the Prothonotary to do the same as a list in alphabetical form stating therein simply the name and residence of each applicant respectively.

(c) The Prothonotary of the county in which the application for license is made shall lay before the Superior Court, at its then next term, all applications for licenses, together with the certificate and recommendation accompanying the same, filed in the Prothonotary's office, on the 1st day of such application.

(d) The Court may or may not, in its discretion, approve any application, and in order to satisfy the Judges thereof fully in regard to the propriety of approving the same, may receive remonstrances and hear evidence and arguments for and against the same, and establish general rules for that purpose.

(e) If any application is approved, as provided in this section, the Court shall endorse the word "approved" thereon and sign the same with the date of approval. If not approved, the Court shall endorse the words "not approved" and sign the same. The Prothonotary, immediately after any such application has been so approved, shall notify the applicant of such approval, and following receipt of the notarized certification of satisfactory completion of the firearms training course requirement as set forth in paragraph (a)(3) of this section above shall issue a proper license, signed as other state licenses are, to the applicant for the purposes provided in this section and for a term to expire on June 1 next succeeding the date of such approval.

(f) The Secretary of State shall prepare blank forms of license to carry out the purposes of this section, and shall issue the same as required to the several Prothonotaries of the counties in this State. The Prothonotaries of all the counties shall affix to the license, before lamination, a photographic representation of the licensee.

(g) The provisions of this section do not apply to the carrying of the usual weapon by the police or other peace officers.

(h) Notwithstanding any provision to the contrary, anyone retired as a police officer, as "police officer" is defined by 1911 of this title, who is retired after having served at least 20 years in any law-enforcement agency within this State, or who is retired and remains currently eligible for a duty-connected disability pension, may be licensed to carry a concealed deadly weapon for the protection of that retired police officer's person or property after that retired police officer's retirement, if the following conditions are strictly complied with:

(1) If that retired police officer applies for the license within 90 days of the date of that retired police officer's retirement, the retired police officer shall pay a fee of $65 to the Prothonotary in the county where that retired police officer resides and present to the Prothonotary both:

a. A certification from the Attorney General's office, in a form prescribed by the Attorney General's office, verifying that the retired officer is in good standing with the law-enforcement agency from which the retired police officer is retired; and

b. A letter from the chief of the retired officer's agency verifying that the retired officer is in good standing with the law-enforcement agency from which the retired police officer is retired; or

(2) If that retired police officer applies for the license more than 90 days, but within 20 years, of the date of that retired police officer's retirement, the retired police officer shall pay a fee of $65 to the Prothonotary in the county where the retired police officer resides and present to the Prothonotary certification forms from the Attorney General's office, or in a form prescribed by the Attorney General's office, that:

a. The retired officer is in good standing with the law-enforcement agency from which that retired police officer is retired;

b. The retired officer's criminal record has been reviewed and that the retired police officer has not been convicted of any crime greater than a violation since the date of the retired police officer's retirement; and

c. The retired officer has not been committed to a psychiatric facility since the date of the retired police officer's retirement.

(i) Notwithstanding anything contained in this section to the contrary, an adult person who, as a successful petitioner seeking relief pursuant to Part D, subchapter III of Chapter 9 of Title 10, has caused a protection from abuse order containing a firearms prohibition authorized by 1045(a)(8) of Title 10 or a firearms prohibition pursuant to 1448(a)(6) of this title to be entered against a person for alleged acts of domestic violence as defined in 1041 of Title 10, shall be deemed to have shown the necessity for a license to carry a deadly weapon concealed for protection of themselves pursuant to this section. In such cases, all other requirements of subsection (a) of this section must still be satisfied.

(j) Notwithstanding any other provision of this Code to the contrary, the State of Delaware shall give full faith and credit and shall otherwise honor and give full force and effect to all licenses/permits issued to the citizens of other states where those issuing states also give full faith and credit and otherwise honor the licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this section and where those licenses/permits are issued by authority pursuant to state law and which afford a reasonably similar degree of protection as is provided by licensure in Delaware. For the purpose of this subsection "reasonably similar" does not preclude alternative or differing provisions nor a different source and process by which eligibility is determined. Notwithstanding the forgoing, if there is evidence of a pattern of issuing licenses/permits to convicted felons in another state, the Attorney General shall not include that state under the exception contained in this subsection even if the law of that state is determined to be "reasonably similar." The Attorney General shall communicate the provisions of this section to the Attorneys General of the several states and shall determine those states whose licensing/permit systems qualify for recognition under this section. The Attorney General shall publish on January 15th of each year a list of all States which have qualified for reciprocity under this subsection. Such list shall be valid for one year and any removal of a State from the list shall not occur without 1 year's notice of such impending removal. Such list shall be made readily available to all State and local law-enforcement agencies within the State as well as to all then-current holders of licenses issued by the State of Delaware pursuant to this Section.

(k) The Attorney General shall have the discretion to issue, on a limited basis, a temporary license to carry concealed a deadly weapon to any individual who is not a resident of this State and whom the Attorney General determines has a short-term need to carry such a weapon within this State in conjunction with that individual's employment for the protection of person or property. Said temporary license shall automatically expire 30 days from the date of issuance and shall not be subject to renewal, and must be carried at all times while within the State. However, nothing contained herein shall prohibit the issuance of a 2nd or subsequent temporary license. The Attorney General shall have the authority to promulgate and enforce such regulations as may be necessary for the administration of such temporary licenses. No individual shall be issued more than 3 temporary licenses.

(l) All applications for a temporary license to carry a concealed deadly weapon made pursuant to subsection (k) of this section shall be in writing and shall bear a notice stating that false statements therein are punishable by law.

(m) Notwithstanding any other law or regulation to the contrary, any license issued pursuant to this section shall be void, and is automatically repealed by operation of law, if the licensee is or becomes prohibited from owning, possessing or controlling a deadly weapon as specified in 1448 of this title.

Posted by: kavips at July 15, 2010 03:21 AM