January 14, 2009

Idiot Brit says Hamas is only about “resistance”

Whadd’ya expect? He’s a former ambassador to the UN!

Sir Jeremy Greenstock: Astoundingly, this ornament of the British Great and the Good made a propaganda pitch for Hamas. The claims he made were so patently ludicrous it is hard to believe that any western person, let alone a former senior diplomat, could make them.

First he introduced the much touted analogy between the Arab/Israel conflict and Northern Ireland:

”My colleagues and I have introduced Hamas to senior members of Sinn Fein and they are very interested in the precedent, the example of what happened in Northern Ireland.”

This analogy is absurd and inappropriate for two principal reasons. First, the Northern Ireland ‘peace process’ became possible only when the IRA declared ‘the war is over’ and asked to become part of the political process instead; and that was only because it had been beaten into at least a stalemate by the British Army and concluded that joining the political process was the only way to achieve its goals.* That is patently not the case with Hamas which is waging uninterrupted war.

*Moreover, when the British government talked secretly to the IRA before the IRA declared 'the war is over', the result was a huge escalation in terrorism against Britain.

Even better was this beaut from Greenstock:

They (Hamas) are not intent on the destruction of Israel. That's a rhetorical statement of resistance and not part of their programme.

“Rhetorical statement of resistance?” The Hamas Charter specifically calls for the destruction of Israel, not to mention Jews in general. (You can read the charter here.) But to really get a grip of what Greenstone’s Liz Allen-level asininity is all about, when he invokes the Hamas Charter as a “statement of ‘resistance to the occupation,’” he’s referring to ALL of Israel – not just the West Bank and Gaza – as being “occupied.”

As they say, read the whole thing.

(h/t to The Corner)

Posted by Hube at January 14, 2009 06:19 PM | TrackBack

Comments  (We reserve the right to edit and/or delete any comments. If your comment is blocked or won't post, e-mail us and we'll post it for you.)

Hube, I wonder what you would think of the Jews were you, your parents and/or your grandparents refugees driven out of your homehomeland by the militant Zionists going back to the 1930's, and forward from there? Most of the Gazans are refugees, you know? But let's look at the present as well.

Since the Jews left Gaza(and were settled, btw, on the West Bank in Palestinian territory, 7000 of them)for 18 months now, the Gazans have been totally blockaded, in which most of their critical supply needs (and weapons) have come in from Egypt via tunnels. The result has been grave suffering amid scarcities of necessities. Now we have an Israeli assault which has further sealed Gaza, thereby trapping Gazans in a war zone with no means of escape. Talk about terror! I can hardly imagine. Over a thousand Gazans killed, one third of whom are children? What does this say about the Israelis? Not only Middle East Arabs, but most of the globe is furious at this inhumanity. As well the desperate behavior of Hamas is despicable, placing innocent Israelis in harms way, as well as placing Gazans as hostages of this war on their own land. This is what happens in war -- there can be no winners. How many more wars will it take to learn this lesson, that diplomacy, negotiation and compromise are required for resolution?

Nevertheless, in spite of a history of bloody conflict, Israel has been resistant for decades to a diplomatic solution, only occasionally being willing to participate with help from an intermediary, like Carter and Clinton. I believe this to be a strategic error on their part, as overall their intransigent approach has done little positive, rather strengthened the resistance and resolve of the Palestinians, and decreased the support of potential allies, except for the US at $6B per year. Hamas and the like will never give up in battle, as history has demonstrated.

I can only hope that the peace initiatives of the French and Egyptians will lead to a cease fire, finally, followed by a robust peace effort by the US and others now that we have a significant change in administration.


You seem incapable of seeing the Hamas side of this disaster. That said, Hamas is not beyond culpability, not at all. I note that you have not focused on Israeli culpability one iota.

Posted by: Perry at January 15, 2009 08:33 AM

"I wonder what you would think of the Jews were you, your parents and/or your grandparents refugees driven out of your homehomeland by the militant Zionists going back to the 1930's, and forward from there? Most of the Gazans are refugees, you know?"

Where is proof of this assertion? Where can I read of this vast Zionist conspiracy to purge Arabs from Palestine pre-1948? Where are the facts that this actually happened? I provided factual evidence (that you impulsively rejected) that demonstrated that the Jews who emigrated to Palestine in the late 19th century purchased their land from the effendi -- rich ARAB landowners.

Most of the Gazans are refugees NOT because of the Israelis, but because of their own Arab brothers. Period. They had their own sovereign state in 1948 but REJECTED IT. Fact. End of story.

Talk about being incapable of accepting FACTS. Now, go away hypocrite.

Posted by: Hube at January 15, 2009 08:44 AM

Going deeper into the origins and history of the Zionist incursion into Palestinian lands, you, Hube, have referenced the views an Israeli, David Meir-Levi:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1501222/posts

This is an undocumented op/ed, although there is an extensive bibliography. However, it is quite obvious that he presents only the Israeli side of this conflict, which gets us nowhere. This is nothing more than a master cherry-picking venture here.

On the contrary, there are Israelis who feel quite differently about the Palestine issues, therefore their viewpoint must be examined. So here, Hube, is a "must read" for you, written by a peace-oriented Israeli, Rabbi Michael Lerner:
http://www.truthout.org/article/rabbi-michael-lerner-end-suffering-middle-east

Finally, since you have mentioned your extensive study of this issue, I recommend this recent book by Israeli historian Ilan Pappe, which presents at extensively documented view of the historical roots and current status of this conflict:
The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, by Ilan Pappe

Let me know what you think.

Posted by: Perry at January 15, 2009 09:23 AM

Perry. Do you ever stop to read your nonsense? Of course not. What is an "undocumented yet heavily footnoted" article? And if he is cherry-picking, what the f*** do you think Lerner does?

THAT'S what I think. I also think you're a hypocrite.

Posted by: Hube at January 15, 2009 09:55 AM

Have you examined the Nazi "point of view" of WW II, Perry? If not, why? Why do you only look at ONE side of the conflict?

Posted by: Hube at January 15, 2009 09:57 AM

Lerner takes a middle-ground position, Hube, one that you don't recognize because you don't care to add to your understanding of the roots of this conflict. On the other hand, David Meir-Levi takes the Israeli side, quite obviously.

For whatever reason, you have picked your side, so further discussion or investigation is out of line. Instead, as always, you continue with your anti-Palestinian propaganda [nonsense deleted] -- Admin.

PS: Actually, I have examined the roots of the rise of the Nazis. Have you?

Posted by: Perry at January 15, 2009 04:47 PM

Lerner is ANYTHING but "middle ground" when it comes to Israel-Palestinians, Perry. He is only "middle ground" because you happen to agree with him. Why not just admit it?

And yes -- I HAVE picked my side. There is nothing at all wrong with "picking a side" when one believes one side to be right, and one side to be wrong. You believe the Israelis are wrong -- so how does that make you any different than me? Freakin' idiot.

My point about the Nazis and WWII wasn't so much about "studying the rise of the Nazis;" it's about the tactics they -- and Hamas, et. al. -- utilize to "rectify" their perceived grievances.

Would you actually claim that the Germans' anger over Versailles etc. justified what they did in WWII and the Jews?

Posted by: Hube at January 15, 2009 05:05 PM

No, Hube, you are incorrect about my position. Both sides have committed atrocities, but currently the Israelis have gone berserk, as the Palestinians defend themselves. Here is the news of the day today:

Israelis shell hospitals and UN HQ

Israel's bombing of the UN compound in Gaza has outraged UN chief Ban Ki-moon [AFP]

Three hospitals and a UN compound have been bombed by Israel as troops continue to advance into the densely-populated Gaza City.

These are the actions of a nation gone crazy!!!

Posted by: Perry at January 15, 2009 05:39 PM

Wrong Perry. You have yet -- after ALL this time -- refused to acknowledge Hamas', Hizbollah's, etc. terrorism and the plain outright FACTS surrounding Israel's founding and the Arab states' desire to annihilate it.

If that is "balanced," I fear what your "unbalanced" opinion is.

What a joke.

Posted by: Hube at January 15, 2009 06:01 PM

I asked this twice, still no answer: "Would you actually claim that the Germans' anger over Versailles etc. justified what they did in WWII and the Jews?"

Posted by: Hube at January 15, 2009 06:04 PM

No, Hube, I could never justify what the Nazis did. That said, it is instructive to attempt to understand the roots of such behavior, just as now it is equally worthwhile to understand the roots that cause the Palestinians and Israelis to behave as they are behaving. The path to peace will be helped by such an effort, an effort that you seem unwilling to make since you have chosen sides.

Posted by: Perry at January 16, 2009 08:33 AM